Currently, cex exchanges do not support multiple futures positions on the same currency pair. Let’s say I have a grid bot with 36 grid levels. When we run a short futures grid bot, the bot platform always shows profits, but in reality, the price has to move down to cash out real profit because the bot uses a single position on the exchange and keeps averaging up the break even price.
If we had separate positions for each grid level, we could cash out real money as soon as a grid level closes.
There would be no need to wait and lock funds until the bot averages up and the price reaches the take profit below the break even.
I know this is a bit complex logic and current CEXs do not support it, so can able to we implement this on a any other DEX that supports multiple positions on the same crypto pair.
Or if gainium is hard to do, can we achieve it using some Python code? I’m open to ideas like which DEX currently supports this kind of feature, etc(I saw that Forex MT4 has this feature. It opens trades separately.)
I’m not sure what the request is about, in Gainium we separate the positions for each grid level. Whether exchange show you profit or loss or they allow you to cash out is not something we can control.
In spot trading, yes. But in futures grid bots, grids are just an illusion because the exchange uses a single position to handle everything.
My suggestion is about having true grid level separation on the exchange side as well. Currently, none of the CEXs support this, and I am not sure whether any DEX supports it either.
This post is just to get ideas and start a discussion on how we can do this via a DEX or in some other way ex like spread positions across sub accounts, so I am not sure this can be implemented in Gainium.
For example, when we run an MT5 leveraged forex short grid bot on EURUSD, each grid level is a real order on our side and on the broker side. When a grid level TP is hit, we can cash out that money.
As I said above, very rich users with 200+ sub accounts on Binance are running this kind of customized bots to spread positions across sub accounts and generate a lot of money.
I am attaching one of my current running bots. It shows a $2.67 profit, but the profit is not realized yet because the orders are used to average up the current position entry price. The profit will only be realized when the price goes down below the main position on the exchange and hits the other TP levels.
If we had individual positions for each order, like in forex, we could realize that profit and invest it again right away. We would not have to wait until the price goes below the main position like we do now.
That is correct. Currently, exchanges do not allow separate positions.
I am just looking for a way to achieve this, for example via sub accounts or some DEXs. Sorry, I should have added this under the general discussion or strategy category, not as a feature request. I have changed the category of this post.
Example setup
Pair: BTCUSDT
Strategy: Short grid
Grid spacing: $1,000
Grid levels: 3 (to keep it simple)
Order size per grid: $100
Leverage: 1x
Case 1: How CEX futures grid works today (single position)
Orders placed
Short $100 at $60,000
Short $100 at $61,000
Short $100 at $62,000
Exchange behavior:
All orders are merged into one short position
Average entry becomes around $61,000
Position size = $300
Price moves
BTC drops from $62,000 → $61,000
What happens:
Bot UI shows profit on the top grid
No real profit is realized
Orders are just adjusting the average entry price
You can only cash out when:
Price drops below the average entry
And TP is hit for the whole position
Profit is locked until the full position is closed or partially reduced.
Case 2: Your idea (true separate positions, like MT5 forex)
Orders placed (separate positions)
Short $100 at $60,000
Short $100 at $61,000
Short $100 at $62,000
Each grid level = its own position
Price moves
BTC drops from $62,000 → $61,000
What happens:
Position opened at $62,000 hits TP
That position closes
Profit is realized instantly
You can withdraw or reuse that money right away
Meanwhile:
Positions at $60k and $61k stay open
No waiting for full average break even
No locked profit
Why this is powerful
Real cash flow, not paper profit
Faster capital rotation
Less margin locked
Much better for grid strategies
This is exactly how MT4 / MT5 forex grids work.
Why exchanges don’t allow this easily
Single position keeps:
Margin locked longer
Funding fees flowing
Liquidation risk higher
Separate positions reduce exchange profit
That is why:
Only hedge mode exists
No true multi-position per side
Sub accounts are used by rich users as a workaround
Can DEXs do this today
Most perp DEXs still net positions
Very few support true independent positions
Some order-based DEXs are close, but still limited
Neither on spot nor Futures market there are separate positions at the exchange if orders are executed in the same account. Every order averages the position at the exchange. That doesn’t mean that the bot provider can’t see separate deals from his view, which of course can take profit separately. You only have to take care of the total number of open orders per pair, which are usually limited at the exchange (per account?).
I know that, that is why I am looking for a way to truly separate each futures deal on the exchange side too to realize profits, instead of wasting time and money on averaging one position on the exchange.
If you buy an asset for $100 and sell it for $101, you will make a profit of $1 minus fees. So why should you care whether the $100 you initially paid has changed the asset’s average price on the exchange?
Let’s say in a short futures trade you see a $1 profit from a grid level close, but if that deal closes above the overall average position of the grid bot on the exchange, the exchange uses that closed amount to adjust the average position. So we cannot cash out the actual profit immediately.
In MT4 or MT5 forex futures, there is no single combined position. You can have multiple positions for the same pair like BTCUSD, and you can close any futures short order and take the profit directly.
But in crypto CEX and DEX futures, closed grid deals are used to average the main position, so we have to wait until the price goes below the average price to actually cash out the profit.
Oh, I see what your problem is. I had that problem a few years ago when I was new to crypto. It is a concept that is a bit harder to grasp if you have knowledge from forex, but it does not really matter which way an exchange handles your position. In reality, MT5 and MT4 positions also aggregate, but it could be easier to identify a single position, but consider this:
-You pay swap for every position → in the end they aggregate
-Your open positions have “isolated” PL, BUT in the end, they aggregate, if you take a look at your margins.
-You are able to close them one-by-one, BUT you could also close part of your aggregated positions stack in futures
At the end of the day, it does not matter which type an exchange uses. It is just a visualisation. I know it is hard to rewire your mind to this concept, but watch some bots doing their things and do the math. In the end, it is the same.
P.S.: there is a broker for traditional markets, Saxo Bank, who uses both methods. You could follow your positions aggregated, but you could open a drop-down window where you could see your individual positions that aggregate into the “master” position. You could think about it the same. On binance you could see the “master” position, but you could check your underlying positions here with your bots.
I don’t think your current explanation about forex is correct. forex have true position separation, If you open a EURUSD trade and have another EURUSD trade that takes profit, you can withdraw that profit. The forex broker does not show it as a loss or use it to average the other positions positions of same pair.
In crypto, bots can show profit, but the exchange shows a loss. When a short futures bot closes a deal above the average entry price, the exchange treats it as a loss, realizes it, deducts it from our balance, and moves the entry price up. We can realize positive profit and add it to our balance only if the price goes down, but we have to wait.
I am looking for a way to do forex style deal separation in crypto. One idea is using many sub accounts. For example, if a futures grid bot has 100 grid levels, the bot can place each level on a separate sub account. Since each sub account has only one grid level, it can realize profit without averaging up or down.
Right now, this is possible only for VIP users with very large $10 million+ capital. I am looking for another way to do this. I am not focusing on the negatives of the idea I shared because whales also use it, and I already explained all the positive points about it.
The bot shows profit, but the exchange takes three days to average the positions (realize losses). When the price goes below the average price, the exchange then realizes profits.
Why shouldn’t you be able to close the profitable part of a position? The exchange only sees the position and its average price. For example, if you initially buy for $100 when the price is at $100, and then the price drops to $50. If you then buy again for $100 and sell when the price is at $55, you will have made a profit of about $10 on the second deal, which you could withdraw. However, to the exchange, it will look like you are making a loss. Who cares?
Profit is locked until the full position is closed or partially reduced.
